Episode 59: Navigating the workplace as a Muslim Women with Samira Hamana
We have come to the last episode of the Professional Muslim Women series, in the previous episodes, we spoke with Deqa Gelle and HR professional and recruiter who shared her tips for finding a job. We also talked to Khadija Khatun from Muslim Women Connect, a networking organization based in London. Then in episode 58, we chatted with Sofia Haq, Founder of Muslim women Professionals in California.
They each discussed the purpose behind their organizations and how they help to empower and inspire young professionals in their community.
In this last episode, we spoke with Samira Hamana, Who is an HR professional in Canada, a life coach, a new author of the book "Challenging the bully'" she is also a mother of 3.
This episode covers
your rights during the interview and hiring process
How to speak with your boss about your religious obligations during working hours.
Samira's tips for a part of the workplace culture
What rights do you have as an employee
Whats a mothers rights when it comes to maternity leave
*Please note Samira, and I are not providing you legal advice in this episode, if you have questions about your rights, please speak with a legal professional or commission in your area.
Connect with Samira Hamana
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/certifiedlifebusinesscoach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samirahamaana/
Connect with me on
https://www.instagram.com/naptimeisacred/
Episode Transcription
Episode Transcription
Fousia: [00:00:04] As salaam alaykum and welcome to The Time is Sacred podcast, where we share stories of Muslim women doing amazing work. I'm your host. Post the Afterlife.
Fousia: [00:00:21] Hey, guys, as salaam alaykum and welcome back to another episode of the Naptime is Sacred podcast. I'm so happy to be bringing you guys. The last episode of them professional Muslim Woman series on previous episodes we had with us Deqa Gelle, who's an H.R. professional of many years and also owns her own recruiting business. We had Khadija from a Muslim Woman Connect and on episode 58, which is the episode of Right before this one, we had Sofia Haq for a Muslim Woman Professionals. I hope you guys enjoyed all of the previous episodes of this series, and if you haven't listened to them yet, please do check them out and share them with the Muslim woman in your life. On today's episode, I'm so happy to have similar manner. Who is an H.R. professional, a life coach, a new author, and MashaAllah wearing so many different hats?
[00:01:07] samira is a mother of three from Edmonton, Canada. And I'm so happy to have Samira here with us today. Samir. How are you doing? Welcome to the show. I'm great. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:17] I'm super excited to talk to you about this topic. But for our listeners who are not familiar with you, please tell us a little bit about yourself.
Samira Hamana: [00:01:24] My name is Samira Hamana. I am a mother of three kids and our professional life coach and new author and also a designer. I like to do crafts and handmade things. Yeah, I have a lot of many hats and I wear many hats. And they live in Canada, Russia.
[00:01:48] I love that you said wearing multiple hats because that's a lot of Muslim moms these days, right? Your mom, your wife, you've got a career. You also have hobbies that you love to do. So I love to hear about that. So, Mary, tell us a little bit about how you got started in H.R.
Samira Hamana: [00:02:04] I was doing H.R. in Morocco, and I like to deal with people and have more contact with people.
Samira Hamana: [00:02:11] So when I came to Canada, that was the first road that I navigated.
Samira Hamana: [00:02:17] I went to school and I took each our diploma. Then I work. Then I went for HRO degree.
Fousia: [00:02:25] So tell us a little bit about your feelings towards Muslim woman in the workforce. I know we get a lot of questions from sisters who are concerned about looking like a minority or being a hijab, even from the initial stages of like interviewing.
Fousia: [00:02:41] And I've also heard about sisters who take off their hijab so that that initial like meeting with the person who's interviewing them, they're not kind of disregarded quickly in the interview process.
Samira Hamana: [00:02:52] In HR discrimination is illegal. However, visible minority will face discrimination no matter what. But you don't have to be afraid or you don't have to get you to move your hijab because there is laws that's protected you if you fear if you feel that you are going to be discriminated or you have been discriminated. It is law and processes that are protecting you which shift you can take legal actions without incurring a lot of money or anything. You just file a complaint to the Human Rights Commission, and they will investigate and take care of that. So, you need women. Muslim women do not have to take their hijab just for a job because in Canada or America there is laws that protect you. It protects you.
Fousia: [00:03:41] Okay. So, you touched a little bit on this. What to do if you do you face discrimination. Is there a process initially when you are in the workforce? Like, do you go to your H.R. person? Do you go to your manager or the person? I guess if the manager is discriminating against you, the person above that. What's the process like just for someone who is unaware of what to do?
Samira Hamana: [00:04:02] You have first of all if that discrimination happened during the interview, interview, phase, all you do, you have to see the policy on discrimination in the workplace and you see who is the right person to complain to. And if it is not. There is no discrimination policy. You always have to go to a human rights commission and then file a complaint and you have to make sure that you have all the information and facts. So you have to remove all the emotions and you have to just record facts. Date, time, location, also witnesses. If you have that.
Fousia: [00:04:40] Okay, that's awesome. MashaAllah I'm glad that you said like take the emotion out of it because this is like an emotional topic. But when we're trying to get our point of view across or trying to have our voice heard, there's like actual processes and steps that we've got to take. I love that you mentioned that, you know, just report on the facts and write down everything that you saw and heard and who might have also seen that so they can back you up. That's really great tips, MashaAllah. Tell us about some of the things that you work with employees and employers on when it comes to discrimination, making sure that that stays out of the workplace
Samira Hamana: [00:05:15] So as you said. The interview processes. Employers should only ask questions that directly relate to the requirement they have. They have to only ask you about the requirements of the job, and they should not ask you about Fifteen grounds of protection, which can be a racist, religion, gender identity, age, physical disability, mental disabilities. So, we have 15 grounds. That's a recruiter. And HR an employer are not allowed to ask employees about. For example, they cannot tell you how what language you were brought up speaking or your birthplace. What is your religion? these Questions are not allowed, and you can refuse to answer them. And also, she feels those questions will lead to discrimination. You have to report it to Canadian Human Rights Commission. And I'm sure there is other agency in USA as well. Oh, yeah. And another one is that employers have to accommodate you when you are asked for a prayer time or you were to tell them that there is a prayer time that you want to take from work, from the work they have to accommodate you, and you don't have to discriminate against you because of these requirements. As I said religion and the beliefs are one of the protected grounds in workplace law.
[00:06:43] Ok, so do you have to disclose that or let them know about like prayer needs? Eid taking jummah off to pray? Or is that something that you should tell them? Like after you've already been hired. Because a lot of people are like, oh, just wait until you get the offer. And then when you accept, tell them about those things that you need them to do what I said.
[00:07:02] So they know when they are hiring a Muslim, they know there is a prayer needs and there is other needs. So, it's for me, it's better to say it after that will be a judgment or it will lead you to not getting the job because you will never know.
[00:07:20] You would never know. Yeah, you will know if that was the actual reason. Yeah.
Samira Hamana: [00:07:24] Yeah, exactly. So, you'll have to tell them after. But I'm sure when you are hired Muslim, they know their religious requirements because a lot of Muslims are in the workplace and they have like there is a lot of fear case at law, legal case has been in the courts and HR aware of it.
Fousia: [00:07:42] Yeah. I think in the end this is where the differences between Canada and America. In Canada, there is a very visible majority of Muslim workers who do take these concessions when it comes to love, taking time off for Reid and Salat and all those things. But I think in America you don't really see people like wanting to announce that they're Muslim. And I might be wrong on this, but it's just kind of like I think the generation, I guess my generation or older generation, they would just take there like 5-minute breaks for lunch or whatever that they needed to. And the news the rest of the time to do. Are laws or even like on aid, they would pray early in the morning, eats a lot and then go into work, does so like it didn't mess with their work life. But I think nowadays when you see the younger generation who is growing up more visibly Muslim and also kind of more outspoken than our immigrant families who came here, kids who were born in this country, they have a lot. I feel like that they are more confident in their freedom of speech and freedom of religion, that they are able to speak about that.
Fousia: [00:08:55] So that's been kind of an interesting contrast that I've noticed between Canada and America.
Samira Hamana: [00:09:01] Yeah, maybe because as you said then, when you are the first generation, immigrants don't know the rights or their rights at the workplace. So for this reason, this is this part. But put I think we'll help them to learn. And like I was thinking of doing a lot of the human rights and employment law for new immigrants, you know, there it's. And their responsibilities. So, they will not be exploited. And I will not be a head of use of expressing their religion or practicing their religion.
Fousia: [00:09:39] Yeah, that is so needed.
Fousia: [00:09:41] I think if you did workshops on that, especially being in Edmonton, when there is a high level of immigrants working in industries, whether it's in the oil industry or like mining or any of those kind of things, that they're aware of their rights, because a lot of times you'll be in circumstances where it's bad for your health or something that's dangerous for your life, and they don't know that they have rights or who to report incidents of accidents and things like that, too.
Samira Hamana: [00:10:07] Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Fousia: [00:10:09] I would love to see workshops like that. And I'm so glad that you came up with, you know, thinking of wanting to do that. So, tell us some about some of your, like, interesting age. Our story is when it comes to the workforce. I know all H.R. professionals have got these stories of things that they've, you know, difficult stories that they've had to overcome as well as really positive ones.
Samira Hamana: [00:10:28] So this is this is fun the more difficult for me.
Samira Hamana: [00:10:32] It was when a and your employee had, and a senior employee had a contact with each other and they were like too many differences between them as one was very technology savvy. And she wants to go into her career for the first time. Well, this the old employer, she was feeling that this employee threatened in her career, ended her career.
[00:11:01] So there was like a conflict and there was it's a small conflict which could lead to yelling and screaming in the hallway because the senior employee throws the paper at her face and. Yeah. And she was like she was not making sense. And then the senior employee, she felt she said that she was bullied. It was like a class in that way. Yeah. When we get to understand what's going on. Is senior employees just felt like she was there and she was threatened by the new blood, as you say. And then we had to express that. That's the deal. Blood will just help you. And, well, you'll have to work together and everything. And after that, the get along. And yeah, this is one of the crazy stories that I have seen.
[00:12:02] So tell me, that's like a really kind of crazy story. And I'm glad that it was able to go from a place of escalation back down to something that could be worked out among them. Tell us about your like most positive memory of each. Ah, that comes to mind.
Samira Hamana: [00:12:19] Positive story here.
Fousia: [00:12:22] Like huh a positive story.
Samira Hamana: [00:12:24] you’re like, I'm putting out fires all day, Fousia, that always you have to just deal with the employee issue, make them happy.
Fousia: [00:12:34] Ok. So, having said that, what makes you love what you do, given that it is kind of like a high stress job and you are putting fires out throughout the day between the employer or the employee? Everything else is going on in the offices. How do you cope with that?
Samira Hamana: [00:12:50] And what do you when you are a life coach and as a mother, you have that task kill. That's you are trying to make everybody happy and try to help the employee here and help the employer to have the best employees and have the best applicant.
[00:13:06] That's what it may make me go back to H.R. and love each other, because it's all about people skills, about how to help people, how to how to deal with their emotions.
[00:13:20] And you have to have high emotional intelligence to deal with bullies. You have to detect their emotions and try to tell them this is what is right for you. This is what you should do. And they say it is satisfying when you see you are doing an impact on other people's lives and their career.
[00:13:38] That's so true. That's really, really true. I'm glad that you said, like, you know, remaining intellectually, staying on the job and taking your emotions out of it. It's really helpful when you're dealing with a lot of people in a lot, different personalities. So, I'm glad that you brought that up. I would really love to ask you a couple of different questions, all the same question, but for enough different settings, if you could tell me, like your top tips for Muslim women who are entering the workforce initially from like interview process to job acceptance. What? I guess some of your tips, the advice for that. And then again, just to feed off of that, after you've gotten the job and you're working. What are your some of your tips and advice to feel? You know, part of the workforce, part of the office culture without putting your religion at stake or your personal beliefs had stake.
[00:14:28] Asked to get in an interview, you have to be aware that their employer, employers and recruiters are not allowed to ask you their fifteen ground of discrimination. As I said, is that religion and religious beliefs as wealth and color, identity, gender, expression, race, ethnicity. So, you have to be aware of this and you can refuse. Do have to refuse to answer any question that is related to this. And if they ask you about your hijab or is hijab, is that something you can take off or remove or there is a possibility for more than a decade if you choose? Answering this question and also kind of report to the Canadian a human right because it is obvious that when they are you about your hijab, they will discriminate against you. And if they are telling you to remove it, that's a sign of discrimination.
Fousia: [00:15:25] Ok.
Samira Hamana: [00:15:25] And also, you have to know that the employer have to accommodate you. Religion believe that religious prayers. And you'll have to observe you observe your religion. But her employer also doesn't always have to pay you a salary for that time. If they don't want to go, you'll have to not. Yes. And also, the employer has to do duty to accommodate you. up to the point of undue hardship and undue hardship when not come to the. will not to be affected by a small time for prayer.
Samira Hamana: [00:16:00] So undue hardship has to be like they will consume financial and time and safety steps. So, has to be something huge. Religious beliefs is not one of them. Like especially Muslims. When they take fifteen minutes prayer, that's when not cost the employer a lot of money is to give you a break to pay. So that's not the end. Your hardship like if they told you.
[00:16:30] It's an undue hardship is not ok.
[00:16:34] So just knowing what I did, knowing that what the definition of undue hardship is so that you're not kind of like railroaded into believing, taking, you know, a small break for Salah or the day off for Eid or things like that. So to go to the next question for someone who's in the workforce, who wants to kind of be part of the office culture. What are some of your tips for people over the over the years that you've learned?
[00:17:03] Just be yourself and also learn when you are going into the workplace place and the company learned the culture, the work, the culture, the little plot, the workplace culture, by noticing how their employees are talking to each other, how they are dealing with each other, learn about the policies, procedures and be professional.
[00:17:29] Always try to be professional and after years or months noticing the culture of their workplace place, you will feel if that's the right place for you or not. But I don't think our religion is restricting us from working in any place
Samira Hamana: [00:17:52] That said, that’s healthy like you are.
Samira Hamana: [00:17:55] working with So if you are if our religion just add more core values that are positive. Yeah. I take it.
Fousia: [00:18:05] Yeah. And so, speaking about core values, I think one of the questions that always comes up when discussing jobs and office culture is the culture of like socializing after hours or office parties during the holiday season.
Fousia: [00:18:20] And people are always asking like, you know, how do I navigate that since we don't drink and we don't like it, do a lot of intermixing like how do you deal with that and how do you build a relationship with your co-workers since you're not, you know, building it up at those social gatherings? You know, like. So how does someone compensate for that?
Samira Hamana: [00:18:45] So, yeah, you have to tell them that it's. Yeah, it's your religion. It's for video from go in there and you just have to build your relationship with them.
Samira Hamana: [00:18:56] In other team gatherings like painting, going for a coffee shop to see who you are at your you are beyond a job like to see your true self.
Samira Hamana: [00:19:07] So you go for a coffee shop, go for a painting and go for just for example, shopping with your coworkers. They will see who you are for, for real. And they will understand that you are a fun person and you are a good person. You are a person like them. They have you'll have your cons and you'll have your pros. You'll have your own drawbacks. But you are also positive and happy. So, they will they will understand that religion's requirement comes first in you, because that's your values. That's your beliefs. But at the same time, you are a person that can they can have fun with.
Fousia: [00:19:49] That's really great tips because I mean, a lot people when you have that roadblock in your head that you've placed like, oh, my God, what do I do now? It's hard to think about that. But I love that you mentioned like creating other situations where you are able to build that relationship, like in the office or outside of the office. I hope that is a really helpful tip for you guys who are listening. Samira, just to kind of pivot a little bit. I'd love to speak with you about being a mom in the workforce , and I think a lot of the discussions are surrounding being a woman with children in the workforce recently has been kind of about the pay gap and also when it comes to discrimination about that, needing places to nurse or not being able to come back to your job. I know Canada has a lot better maternity leave and a lot more laws that are, you know, protective of employer, employees when they go on leave or when they have kids.
Fousia: [00:20:48] So tell us a little bit about that. And what are some of your tips and advice for Muslim women who are pregnant or planning to get pregnant or who have little kids and are trying to navigate the workforce,
Samira Hamana: [00:20:59] As I said
Samira Hamana: [00:21:00] Canada has laws that provide women who are pregnant.
Samira Hamana: [00:21:06] So maternity leave, so disbanded time with their children. And also they have been an extension in that. Like if you want to have even maternity leave without pay and you say what, you have kids and employers have to keep that job for you. Till you come back, because that's what we call it, is accommodation. And they have to.
Fousia: [00:21:30] but is that like your job that you initially left or is it like a job similar to yours or does it depending on the length of time that you're gone?
Samira Hamana: [00:21:42] So it depends on the length of the time. And you can. You'll have to get the job that you have left. And if there is no. Like if their job was critical and it was given to somebody else because it was critical. they you have to find you accommodate you and find you in a position that is similar to the role that you have left So it is like kind of they try. They have to accommodate you because of a pregnancy. And as I said, if it was critical and they would hire an employee. But most of the organization, they hired an employee based on contract. They see seek update six months or nine months or one-year maternity leave. So even the annual employee year that he's been hired said he sometimes they let him go and let that the woman that went for maternity leave due back to her job.
Fousia: [00:22:39] Ok. So that's really good. I'm glad they have that set up and I hope this side of the border catches up with it. Samira, do you have any last words of advice or tips or anything that you would like to share about HR for our listeners as we wrap up this episode.
Samira Hamana: [00:22:56] So it's I want to tell the Muslim woman that there is no one has the right to tell you to move your hijab. And the employer has to accommodate you to the plans of undue hardship. And you have to be proud of who you are and never be scared. There is a lot of hijab, a woman that have achieved your goal had she had their career goals. Yes, we will face discrimination. That is not seen. We will face racism, but we have to be stronger and we have to show that said hijab is our beliefs.
Samira Hamana: [00:23:31] We don't give in and we don't give up on our beliefs and values for our job. Because we know that there is other and better jobs on our path.
Samira Hamana: [00:23:43] And we just have to be strong and show that we are professional regardless of our religion and our clothes. So, the clothing has never been an excuse or has never been an obstacle on our way. We should just be proud of who you are and you will get the job.
Samira Hamana: [00:24:05] Don't be scared. Don't be scared. And we know that as a woman. And as Muslim, we believe that risq from Allah. And just I believe make has relaxed that till we get the right position.
Fousia: [00:24:19] that’s awesome MashaAllah,.,
Samira Hamana: [00:24:20] and always educate yourself about your right. And good luck.
[00:24:25] Awesome Samira JazakhaAllah khair, I really appreciate you coming on the show. For those listeners who want to connect with you on social media, where can they find you?
[00:24:34] I am everywhere on Instagram, Samira Hamana
[00:24:39] And also Facebook. Samira Hamana as well. And yes, Facebook and Instagram are the main sources where you can find me.
[00:24:50] Ok. Awesome for you guys who are listening in. You guys can find all of Samira's information in the show notes as well as at naptimeissacred.com Thank you so much for listening to today's episode and inshaAllah until next time. Take care, Asalaamu alaykum
[00:25:07] Hey, guys, thanks for listening to this episode of the Naptime is Sacred podcast. Don't forget to subscribe in iTunes. And while you're at it, please leave a rate and review so we can get this podcast out to more people. To connect You guys can find me on social media under the handle at Naptime is Sacred. That's going to be on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Also, for more of my work and these episodes, check out naptimeissacred.com. Until next time, stay positive and work towards the life that you want.